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They are one of the true pioneers of modern electronic music, having spent the last 25 years on the front lines of experimentation and innovation. They were one of the first bands to do away with traditional instrumentation, opting for a more original and aggressive focus on pure keyboards and electronics, a practice that is all too common today. They are the purveyors of industrial dance music, honing a sound that came to be known and loved by many as Electronic Body Movement, or EBM. They are Front 242, the quartet from Belgium that helped to define the underground club music of a generation. From their beginnings in 1981 with the minimalist classic Geography to the powerful beat-driven Official Version to their techno-influenced Re:Boot tour in 1998 and even spawning the hit song "Headhunter," the band has endured a great deal of adulation and criticism, always paving the way forward for the creation of new sounds and styles in electronic music. After a long period of touring and side projects, 2003 saw the release of P.U.L.S.E., the band's first album of new material in a decade, and one that left fans divided due to its departure from what many know as the 242 sound. Having released a DVD of a 2004 live performance earlier this year, and now at the tail end of a month-long tour of North America, ReGen had the opportunity to Catch the Men to speak with vocalist Richard "23" Jonckheere about the past, present, and future of Front 242.

The band is currently at the tail end of... how long, a month-long tour of the United States?

Richard: That's right.

How has the tour gone so far?

Richard: Well, we're not doing only the States. It's North America, so it's like the States, Canada, and we have a date in Mexico. Well, I would say that it's going well. We didn't know what to expect in terms of audience and stuff, because we haven't been playing here. The last real tour we did was '98, and then we came back in 2004 for a few dates in the big cities like Chicago. There was not really a lot going on. The last album came out two years ago, P.U.L.S.E. We didn't sell well, either in the States or in Europe, for many different reasons. Well, maybe the album is not good as we used to be, maybe that's why. And I think that the market is pretty difficult too for the type of music in general. So we didn't know what to expect when we came here, especially when we decided to do alternate versions of old songs that were vintage, going back to the roots, do that for a year, and then see what we will do next. If we do not do something else after that, that will be the end of the band. We started with vintage in the early '80s, we've been through all the time, and we're back now in 2005 playing old songs but in their all new vintage versions. Of course, it's not completely the same as it used to be as in the '80s. And we'll see, if we still got the feeling, the power, the energy, the ideas to do something else, we'll do. But actually we don't think about it. It's like we have no firm plan. But the tour has been doing well. I mean, some places were packed and others were like a bit less. But I also believe that because of audiences and talking to people that the market in America is going down for electronic music in general, which is completely the opposite of Europe, where electronic music is everywhere. Whatever kind of electronic music you're talking about, from EBM, electro, techno, hardcore, house music, whatever... it's there. I see now that your country is right now going back to the past, going to rock and roll stuff, and politics are going backward. It doesn't mean that everybody is going that way.

ReGen is very aware of that kind of climate in America. That's actually part of our mission statement. We're hoping that we can bring electronic music back.

Richard: So yeah, well that's the feedback we've got from these people. It's very sad because there is an audience there, but when you see what's going on with Clear Channel for example, taking over everything, it's not only sad, it's...

[At this point, the tour manager Ben's laptop starts making annoying singing sounds for whatever reason and Richard can't seem to turn it off]

Richard: This is a PC, I'm not used to PC.

Mac user?

Richard: Yeah. What the fuck?

[Richard manages to stop it]

Richard: Thank you. So yeah, it's not only sad but it's scary because it's like a mafia to us. Not only are they taking over in America but they're starting to try to do it in Europe too. They've got a trial, they're being sued in Belgium because they tried to get a monopoly, which is completely illegal in Europe. You cannot buy everything and be the only one there.

It used to be illegal here.

Richard: I know. So when the Iraq invasion started, the artists would say that they would not agree with Bush politics would not be played on some radio because they were owned by Clear Channel, that's owned by the best friend of Bush. I mean it's scary. We're talking about music here, and it's getting to that point? So when we tour and we hear things like that, like some DJ cases, like an electronic DJ from Los Angeles, and people from clubs, they come to look at electronic DJs like freaks. That's what they told me. So how is that comfortable when you know that everywhere in the world, that music is there? So it's a bit sad and scary because that used to be one of our best markets, and now the market is dying for us, so we really don't know what's going to happen next.

[Daniel walks in and starts playing with the laptop, and after an exchange between Richard and Daniel, we move into the next room, where touring drummer Tim Kroker is busy on his laptop]

Richard: So, the market is going a little bit backward here. It's sad, but what can we do about it? Especially because we've been on the road for 25 years, I don't think it is our role now to try to bring things and change things. We did that in the past, now we are here, we got our name, we have our fan base, but I think it's people like you who are trying to do something by playing that kind of music on the radio, on the Web, and trying to put out a magazine to talk about it.

We try. I was going to ask about P.U.L.S.E., because it has been two years. In those two years, has the reception changed? Because I know when it came out that a lot of people said, 'Oh, this isn't 242,' or 'Oh, it sounds like Male or Female.' Now that it has been two years, have you noticed any change in people's opinion?

Richard: No, because honestly, I personally... my opinion won't probably be the same as the others, but I don't think it was the best album we did. I think we talked about it too long.

Yeah, you weren't on it very much, were you?

Richard: No, I was not. I was really on another radio wave. So I slowly stepped forward and said, 'Okay, if you think it's the right thing to do.' What can I do with four members in the band? We always work as a democracy. If the three others are going for that thing, then I'm with. I'm not putting the bad sales... I know the market is not good anymore for us, but I think it was not the best move we could have done, but that's very personal. Once again, we talked about an album for three years, 'Okay, we're going to do it. Okay, we're going to do it.' But then we do a tour, and we have all those side projects and stuff like that, and then suddenly we do it in three months time, and I think it was a mistake. That's my point of view. You can do once in awhile a mistake in your career.

Maybe the timing was off since it was the first new 242 album in 10 years.

Richard: Maybe, yeah, after so many years to come back with that kind of album was risky, that's for sure. But I understand that people were maybe disappointed, but you know the Re:Boot album also had very different reactions. Some people were not into it because the 242 sound was going somewhere else with old songs. Other people were disappointed because it was too techno-ish for them and stuff like that. You can't always satisfy everybody. You don't belong to the people. You belong to your audience in the sense that you always have to try to give the maximum and respect them, but you don't belong to them. You don't have to do what they expect and what they want. When you do music, when you do anything you do, even when you write and stuff, you first put yourself in what you do. Then of course after that, we lost some fans, and we gained others, and that's fine.

I actually have more friends who say Re:Boot was the worst mistake 242 ever made. I just say, 'Well, could they have sounded the way they sounded in the '80s? It's 1998.'

Richard: Exactly. Personally, I think it's a very strong album. Well, first it's a live album, that's a big difference. But we sold a lot of that one. We'd been playing Re:Boot the show since '97 until last year, playing everywhere in the world. There was an evolution in the show, but the basis was the same. That means the cement was there. The people were into it. We're playing 40,000 people raving in Spain, in big festivals in Germany everywhere. So maybe once again it was the people here complaining about the move.

I totally agree. I have a thing against American audiences as well.

Richard: It's not black or white. It's not that easy. I think the general feeling, like the politics, the conservatives, and going back to all the religion that's coming back in your country, it's scary because there's no evolution. When we see how much we have to pay... I know this has nothing to do with the music, but it's related... how much we have to pay to get a work permit to come play music here; it's crazy! And not only the fact that you have to pay to get a work permit, but also you have to prove to the authorities that you are known in their country. If you're in a freaking band doing freaking music from a village culture, they don't have pages in Melody Maker in England or Rolling Stone here. They can't prove what they do, which means they won't get a work permit, which means that they're never going to come to America. So what is happening now in America is that your country is completely culturally and politically closing itself to anything, which means when I read the paper, what do I see? All the American rock bands. I don't see anything from Africa or from Asia or from Europe or even Italian singers. You've got a huge Italian community here. Where are all the big stars from Italy? They don't come here. Why? Because you've got no papers, no articles in the papers, so you can't prove to the embassy that you're known in the States.

I actually was going to ask about that as well because you don't play America as much as Europe, and it has been, what four years since you played America?

Richard: Five years.

Five years, and I was going to ask is it because of the political climate?

Richard: Oh no. Don't take me wrong. I've got friends in almost everywhere in the States, real friends, people I see for many years, and I love to see, and I know that they don't vote for Bush and they don't agree with all that stuff. When you go play somewhere, it's because there's an offer. And if there's no offer, or the offer is not enough to make you come and pay your crew and your expenses, you don't go. It's as simple as that. When you work, you go work for the boss who pays you the best and gives you the better conditions to work and stuff. So I think for five years, it was not really the case in the States. We finally found an agency in New York ready to work with us and give us a tour. And as I said, it's been so-so. Some dates were very good, and others were like, 'We're on the road and we'll do it.' That's the only reason. It's not because of the politics, not at all. A real artist will go play where the people are, where the audience is.

About your DVD that you released in May... it was released on Alfa Matrix in Europe, and it wasn't available in American until September. Seeing as how you're on Metropolis in America, why exactly did it take so long for the DVD to be released in America?

Richard: It's as you call dominos problem. First, it was not supposed to be a DVD. We were talking about putting out a DVD next year that would have been probably a double-DVD with a live DVD that we would work, and a DVD with something special like clips and other special things like that. The fact that we played a festival in Belgium in front of 15,000 people in the best conditions you could get. Large stage, the best light you could get, giant screen, the band was in good shape, sounded great, and they were shooting the show to put on a screen. They were not shooting the show to do a DVD. At the end of the day, the people who shot it and produced it live for the big screen, they got a tape, and they have no rights on the tape, no rights on the image, no rights on the sound. So it's wasted. So they called us, they called the band, and said 'We got this tape,' it's there for that amount of money to try to recover a little bit of their expenses, and we watched it and said, 'wow!' It's like it's there. It was not meant to be a DVD, but it was fantastic. And usually when people do a live DVD, they will take a few songs from one show, a few other songs from another, and put them together and kind of lie. This is not the case at all. It's one real show, one night, one evening with 242. We didn't even touch it. We just touch a little bit of the sound a little to improve it. The guy who's in charge of the visuals redid a little bit of the visuals to make it more efficient.

Etienne Auger?

Richard: Yeah, and that's a sad story about Etienne because he had to go back home for personal family reasons. So anyway, we said it was OK. We're going to put it out, but because it was not meant to be a DVD, that it would not work with the DVD, we're going to put it down with our mistake. We're just going to put it on the net for the fans. Let's make it like 2,000 copies, and it's going to be for the real fans, because the real DVD will come out later. You know, it was an opportunity, so let's do it. And we realized that everybody wanted it. We had complaints from people, like from our distribution in East Europe, saying, 'People don't have credit cards here, or people don't have simply access to the 'net. And those are fans too. They buy all your records, and they can't buy your first live DVD.' And then we realized we did a mistake. So we talked about it right away, because we received mail from Alfa Matrix saying, 'That guy there is buying all of your records, but...'

He can't buy the DVD.

Richard: Because it's only online, and only through Alfa Matrix. So we decided to see if Metropolis would be interested in doing it. That's why it took so long, that's why we had a problem with the NTSC and stuff like that. So at the end of the day, I hope that everybody is happy and everybody has a chance to catch it. We did a mistake. It happened so fast. We got a tape, it's great, let's make a DVD, let's make it for the fans, because we're working on the other DVD.

And then all of a sudden everyone wanted it. Okay, because I know when it came out, the first thing I thought was, 'Oh, well I can play it on my PC, I can just order it.' But then I found out you were already working to bring it to America.

Richard: Yeah, that was a misunderstanding also between the people making the DVDs, you know, the printers, and us, regarding the system and the PAL and NTSC and stuff. Things happen, you know. And once again, the fact that we have complaints from people distributing our CDs in places where people don't have credit cards, those people are offended and saying, 'Oh, we were supposed to give that to our fans, and at the end of the day they're not going to get it because they don't have access to it.' So we decided to change our politics and that's why it took awhile.

That works. On the DVD, it mentions that Roland is a sponsor, and being a gearhead, I've noticed that you guys have used Roland products a lot over the years, the Modular System 100, V-drums, the JP8000 during the Re:Boot tour. Maybe this is best suited for Patrick or Daniel, but what is it about Roland products that appeal to you, and why even have a sponsor at all?

Richard: First of all, it's Roland Belgium who is behind that, because we are known in Belgium, and those people in charge of Roland Belgium are the age of knowing 242 for 15 or 20 years, they know they've got the responsibility of being in charge of the company, when before it was run by people older that they didn't know about 242. So it was an opportunity because those guys like what we do, and it's cool for them to let the people know that 242 are using Roland. And if you use Roland for so many years, you can go over there and get their first product. We don't only work with Roland, that's for sure. But I think the combination of easiness and the friendliness of Roland equipment and the sound is probably one of the best on the market. So if they're used together. I think also prices, Roland compares to other companies in Europe. I don't know here.

Roland is pretty big here in the States.

Richard: So the prices are affordable for people to get a good machine, easy to use, with a good sound, for a regular price. Some machines are amazing, but they cost so much money, it's ridiculous. Others are like very cheap, but they sound crap, so you don't buy it because it's cheap. So it's like with everything, you try to get the best of everything for the price, and also the fact that it's kind of easy to use. And also, they're on the market for so long, that there's evolution from the vintage stuff to what they got not.

You used a lot of software when you recorded P.U.L.S.E., like you used Cubase and Nuendo, but I know one of the big things was that you went back to the aesthetic of Geography experimenting with analog and vintage equipment. How does the band find a balance between vintage analog and modern digital?

Richard: It's a big fight in the band. The thing is you've got all the vintage plug-ins that you have now, you can't use them right if you don't have an external box, a midi box or something to use it, because it's a pain in the ass to use a mouse on your computer.

I make music at home the same way and I know.

Richard: Of course the plug-ins are cheap and you can have a lot of them, but at the end of the day, we're going back to having a module next to your computer, which is what the old synthesizer was doing. That's point number one. So we got plug-ins, it's digital, but you need hardware outside to make it work the right way. And then when you talk about the sound, some plug-ins sound like the original synthesizer only a bit more aggressive, the sub... the body, the bass is not always there anymore. So, but you could talk about this for hours. It's like philosophy, and the purist people would prefer the original, the others would say, 'I prefer the plug-ins because I can get them for free.'

Or for so much money.

Richard: Right. So it's like, I think I'm staying in between. It's cool to be able to go back to vintage sounds with that, but when you got the chance to work with a real old vintage machine, you hear it right away. When you see prices on E-bay for some Moog machine, it's crazy.

Oh yeah, but it's worth it.

Richard: Oh definitely.

I was going to ask about the future, but...

Richard: The future is tonight.

[Laughter]

In the '80s, the band was subject to a lot of misinterpretation, and a lot of people were labeling you as militaristic or fascists. I think it was either you or Patrick who said, 'Skinheads couldn't make the music we make. They're too stupid.'

Richard: Yeah, well, I think that we all said that.

It's been 25 years now, does this sort of thing still happen?

Richard: No. Not anymore. We've got a German drummer. People shut up now.

[Tim smiles and laughs with us]

Richard: Some people talk about it, but we definitely don't have... I think it was a complete misunderstanding put on the air by some stupid journalist. The main problem we had in that was in France... no one really speaks English there. People in the Northern Europe, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, most of the people at least speak a little English, they try to understand what we talk about. Spain, they're really into the music, so they don't really care about what's going on in the back. The only problem was France, where I don't know why. It's also like in history, you always need to... say what you, you know, talk about your position. An artist doesn't tell if he's right or left.

You have to be explicit.

Richard: Exactly. Which we don't understand why, because when you make music, why should you talk about your political direction? And in France the name Front is related to National Front, which is the extreme right party. So that's where it started, Front, electronic music... you could do music with long hair that would be metal, no problem. But if you do electronic music, short hair, a white guy doing electronic music like this, Front 242, it's got to be a fascist band. It's as simple as that. Because there is nothing, there was never a line in the lyrics or an attitude in the live show or anything that would say we are fascist. The thing is, we never took position of that. If people want to think like that, fuck them. We're doing what we do. But it was the right way to respond to that point, but when I go to my bakery, my grocery store, where I go everyday, where they know me for years, and they know I'm in a band, and when the guy says, 'Oh, I read in the paper that you are fascist, and my father did fighting the Germans in the war,' you think, 'Uh oh, this is getting out of hand.' My stepfather was also resistance. I've never been a fascist in my life. So we decided then to put things and to say to the papers that we were taking no political position, because left or right... maybe we should have done it earlier. I don't know.

Well, you don't think to do it until someone makes issue of it.

Richard: Exactly.

Skinny Puppy dealt with it, Throbbing Gristle dealt with it, so maybe it's just that type of music.

[At this point Patrick walks in to get something from his bag]

Front 242 have always had a juxtaposition of music and visuals, Art & Strategy being responsible for the graphic design side of the band. How does the approach towards the visuals compare to the music? Is there any kind of process to designing the imagery?

Richard: I think that Patrick is coming in at the right moment, but I think he has to work?

Patrick: I have to work, but yeah I can answer that.

Richard: Patrick is probably more involved. I mean, that doesn't mean I'm not involved, but Patrick is more involved.

Patrick: Well, with the process of working, we were never too much unnecessarily attracted by other music styles because to do that electronic music, we needed to find new ways of doing music and not be inspired by rock and Anglo-Saxon stuff. So we chose to go for movie images, architectural images, and graphic images, and we're very interested by those disciplines and having that translated into the music. But also the imagery was very important because that music was not around at that time. So we needed a maximum way to come out that other way of doing music, so that's why the visuals were very efficient. Also, we were linked with taking steps with advances that were happening at the time, so again the imagery is nice to illustrate the music. Two guys in the band were graphic designers, so that's why it was naturally linked. And also the emergence of graphic technology at the same time as the musical was a great opportunity there to make a link.

Richard: The techniques and all those programs making those sounds and making those images was growing at the same time.

OK. Thank you very much Patrick.

Richard: I would add to that that also a big part of the music of 242... we have songs, we have lyrics, and we have vocals, but a lot of the music is based on imagery.

Patrick: Imaginary.

Richard: Imaginary imagery. So it's like a natural step. That's why we think about making soundtrack dance music.

I know one of my first exposures to Front 242 was seeing the 'Rhythm of Time' video in Single White Female.

Richard: That's right.

It was that particular segment when I think it was you running from the camera. I had no idea what it was, but I remember thinking, 'She's strapped to a chair, watching a video of this guy being chased. That's pretty clever. Who is this band?'

Richard: I guess you saw the entire video later on?

Oh yeah, I ended up seeing it.

Richard: That was how you first heard of 242?

That was what I first heard of it, and then I looked it up, and my library had that particular album, Tyranny >For You<. I fell in love with it. I didn't know who the band was. I'd never heard of them. I was used to Nine Inch Nails, but I thought this stuff was really different.

Richard: Which came after us.

Yes, and actually when I had InterViewed VNV Nation back in June, they mentioned one of their remixes was called C92, meaning circa 92, because they wanted it to sound like '92-era Front 242.

Richard: Why '92?

I don't know. They never mentioned other than it's just supposed to sound like 242 from that year.

Richard: And you liked it?

I liked it.

Richard: Just kidding.

[Laughter]

Richard: I know Ronan. We're friends.

As much as the scene is in trouble right now, you are still considered by many to be one of the most influential bands in electronic music, and you've toured with a number of bands that show a profound 242 influence, and it even happens today with Haujobb, and the current EBM scene, Icon of Coil recently did a cover of 'Headhunter.' What advice would you give to these bands and artists that are part of the scene today that are either established or coming up? Having been in this music for 25 years...

Richard: I don't know what advice I would give them, but I know for one thing: I'm not really into that scene anymore because my problem is I think it's turning around. I think that there's no innovation, there's no need for something different and new. I think that EBM and industrial music for the last five or 10 years is a bit turning around. There's nothing really like new. In other kinds of electronic music, there was an evolution in the last few years. The only thing I would say is don't try to reproduce what the band that influenced you did because you are going nowhere with that. You are in 2005. Even if there's still room, a place for that kind of music, you can do that kind of music another way. I think it's a cool revival, I think it's cool we play our own vintage stuff, but it's our stuff, and we did it back in the '80s. I understand a new band doing vintage, but exactly the same way, only the timing is completely different. You have to express something, and to express something you have to be 100 percent creative. And trying to sound like those bands from the '80s using the same machines just to try to be hip doesn't make you anything. There's music out there where they try to look very heavy and they have the best look that they can, but at the end of the day, you have like 200-300 bands. So I would say try to take your computer upside-down and don't try to make it look and sound exactly like the one before you, and I think the scene is going wrong because of that. I think because of the lack of... I won't say genius, but...

Creativity?

Richard: Yeah, lack of people who are not afraid to seek something. They try to find something stable, like, 'Oh, EBM's there. I'm going to try that. I'm going to be on the road and sell my records,' and you're going to sound like the one before and you're going to get the same audience everywhere, and you're going to make it die by yourself. We've been on the road for 25 years. I don't think it's our turn, our time to make things change. I'm not going to say that our period is behind us, but most of it is.

You're just going to focus on what 242 does.

Richard: We're going to do things like quiet, and if we have an opportunity to make a new album, we will. If not, we will wait, and that's the way we take it now. There's no record company or people saying like do an album, two months of promotion, go tour... we're not like that anymore. We have an opportunity to play in the States. We haven't played there in five years, what's the offer? Can we do it? That's the way it goes now.

[To close things out, Richard was kind enough to sign my copy of P.U.L.S.E., and I had a chance to shake the hand of every member of the band... as they were all pretty busy, I didn't ask for any additional autographs, but to get to speak to them, however briefly, left me leaving with a huge smile on my face.]