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An Interview with Dan Barrett of Worms of the Earth
Posted: Sunday, December 21, 2008
By: Ilker Yücel
Editor

When a genre or style of music becomes popular to the point of trendy, there exists the danger of it becoming stagnant. Many would argue that the industrial genre as a whole has already fallen into this trap whereby every conceivable subdivision from EBM to noise and all points in between have simply become a series of regurgitations of the same tried and true tracks and formulas we're all accustomed to. Leave it to an act like Worms of the Earth to actually make a discerned effort to shatter the established conventions in favor of making music as aggressively satisfying as it is intricately alluring. Having begun the project in 2003, Dan Barrett has taken Worms of the Earth from its meager beginnings as a quintessential terror EBM project into a much more complex mixture of styles ranging from hard industrial, power noise, and dark ambient, incorporating elements of various genres into a cohesive and cacophonous amalgam that resulted in the debut album The Angels of Prostitution on the noise label Bugs Crawling Out of People. Worms of the Earth's music simply can't be described in singular terms, exemplifying Barrett's adventurous musical spirit while also exploring themes of spiritual and sometimes technological antiquity. Barrett's is a sonic universe where the barriers between modern civilization and the ancient world are steadily broken down, where demons of old and technological advancement clash in ways reminiscent of the macabre literary compositions of H.P. Lovecraft. Few would dare to enter so strange and alien an environment, but those who do would see Worms of the Earth taking the contemporary industrial genres of power noise, terror EBM, dark ambient, etc. into new realms that are as compelling as they are frightening. Join us now as ReGen looks into the abyss with Barrett as he guides us through the evolution of his musical identity.

You've released your debut album, The Angels of Prostitution, on Bugs Crawling Out of People. To start, after releasing albums' worth of music independently for free over the Web, how did you come to sign with Bugs Crawling Out of People, and how have you found your association with them to have been a benefit to you and your music thus far?

Barrett: Well, it's kind of a long story. I first heard It-clings on the track 'Mindless Brutal Apparatus' with Pneumatic Detach way back on the [vis•cer•a] CD. At first I thought the disorderly and terrifying rambling was some fantastic sample ripped from an obscure film about factories, but later I came to realize that there was a man behind the pandemonium. I checked out the It-clings Web site and saw that he made the terrible mistake of saying he would be willing to work with any artist, so I wrote to him asking about doing a collaboration, complete with rambling disjointed text and hugely pretentious bio. He wrote back to me saying something like 'Sure, whatever' and then I never heard back from him. Six months later out of the blue, he wrote me back saying, 'Hey, I didn't forget about that collaboration, and by the way, I'm interested in putting out your album.' Slowly following that, all the pieces fell into place and I, as you now do as well, realized It-clings is actually Squid who runs Bugs Crawling Out of People.

But seriously, releasing on a label is awesome. I knew my older stuff was not fit to be packaged and sold, which is why it was all up for free download. That was a great stepping stone for me, as it helped me to focus ideas while I learned my way around synths, Cubase, and 'the scene' before I put myself on display with a physical CD with label backing, implying I am something of a 'legit artist.' Even though Bugs Crawling Out of People is a small independent label with only a few releases bearing its name, Squid is a very professional, very hard-working guy. He has been very open to my ideas and he has done the best he can to promote Worms of the Earth. I know he works really diligently on his distribution service as well; he always has a pretty immense collection of discs to sell, all with very reasonable prices. Since he knows just about every industrial noise guy out there, just being associated with him has been immensely helpful to my career as a musician. I am really into what he does with It-clings and I am curious as to whether people will postulate assumptions about Worms of the Earth based on what they know about Squid and It-clings. Also, having the connection in Canada has been fantastic, because people up there still like maple syrup...I mean music!

The album title, The Angels of Prostitution derives from ancient Jewish mysticism about a group of succubi, and with songs like 'The Whore,' the title track, and 'Dew Falling Over the Garden,' the album has a running theme of exploring the female as a demonic presence. What was the motivation behind exploring this theme on the album? How much do spiritual and religious concepts play into your conception of your music?

Barrett: Well, apparently I have a problem, which is called 'can't-not-write-a-concept-album.' To set the stage, this was never supposed to be a full-length release. The original idea was to have an 'evil women' EP that would feature two or three tracks and some remixes, but I got bored waiting for all the remixes to come in, so I ended up writing a full-length. Anyway, I wasn't really planning to write a concept album, but my life occurred in such a way that dictated the album to take that route. Instead of crying about my own banal problems, I realized that the world is much bigger than my personal being, and so I wanted to write something that encompassed a history of humans flirting with tragedy. This album is also kind of a testament to the fact that I can never escape the past, no matter how much I want to. And I am speaking not of just my past, but the past of the entire human race. The album just happens to focus on the Judeo-Christian history because it is what I can most easily identify with. Why is that? I never wanted to write a religiously-themed album; in fact, I think I even swore that I would never do it. But due to my upbringing, religion is something that is so ingrained in my being, it is such an integral part of what made me who I am today and what drives me to create music, that there is no way I could write an album that truly expressed myself without including religious elements.

A lot of people say that religion or specifically anti-Christianity in industrial music is cliché or played out, but the fact is that as long as it is still a huge factor in human existence, and more importantly a hugely oppressing factor, I think that it is a particularly pertinent topic. Though I may hate organized religion, I am very interested in spirituality. I have studied in some detail the eastern religions of Hinduism and Buddhism, as well as various cycles of occult mythos which differ in their levels of fictionality. All these things come into play when writing an album, many times consciously, although often times they subconsciously worm their way into my creative process. I don't think you will ever see a Worms of the Earth album that isn't predominantly composed of spiritual concepts.

It also seems that the album faced a delay in release due to an issue with the album's content. Can you elaborate on what happened?

Barrett: During the pressing of this album, we ran into just about every pitfall available to fall in to. There were problems with my mixing, problems with mastering, problems with printing, you name it. We actually had a couple of companies refuse to print the artwork because they deemed it 'too offensive.' I have to give a ton of credit to Squid, because he was considerably understanding throughout every problem that arose and he did his best to get things on the right track. I have no idea how many printing companies we had to go through before one finally just printed the fucking thing (of course even the final printing was not without warnings: this will be too dark, this text will be unreadable, blah blah – everything came out perfectly). I also have to give major thanks to Johnny, a.k.a. Autovoice, for stepping in last minute to do some excellent mastering! But yes, the album is finally out! We officially released it at the Red Invasion 1919 Festival. In your face, fucking lame-ass printing companies!

Let's go back in time a bit. Prior to the album, you released several albums for free over the Web. Aside from the production, what would you say have been the major changes you've made in your music since then, both in terms of your approach to composition and the overall concepts and themes? Or in other words, what prompted you to stop using Transformers samples?

Barrett: Everything and nothing has changed. I've learned a literal ton about music theory and the processes and techniques of music creation, but the fundamental reason for why I create music is still nearly the same as it was in 2004 when I put out my first demo (which no one will ever hear, I hope). The general style of Worms of the Earth has greatly changed: from shitty softsynth-based arppegiated EBM tripe to slightly more glorious and brutal power noise (and hardware synths), but it still retains the all the outside influences you will recognize in the 'classic Worms of the Earth hits': psy-trance, drum 'n bass, IDM, and of course dark ambient. I still create music as a cathartic process to channel unseen energies and to explore that which is called the 'self' in the process. I still want to make something truly epic that can be understood on several levels of consciousness by several kinds of people. I am just much more capable of doing so with the knowledge I hold now.

But the most important question is: why did I stop sampling Transformers? Well, I really do love Transformers, and even though I really tried to rationalize it by claiming they loosely fit with the cyberpunk/future/robot theme of industrial music, this was not the direction I could continue to travel. I realized that in order to further my musical vision, I had to venture into more organic and factual territory to create something that could be described as sounding like 'ancient technology' that would impact listeners on both a visceral and metaphysical level. As much as I love hearing Ironhide say that he wants to 'bust some Decepti-chops,' I realized that there were many more important things that I wanted to convey. But I promise if there is ever an episode of Transformers where they talk about Lillith or the Nephilim or the fundamentals of consciousness, then I will definitely sample it! Actually, one day, I might just make a non-serious sci-fi themed EP, which will utilize all the fantastic Transformers samples I have, 'cause honestly, I am a total fan-boy.

You've recently played the Red Invasion 1919 Festival in Quebec alongside such groups as Ad·ver·sary, Memmaker, Cervello Elettronico, and Scrap.EDX. What would you say were the highlights of this event for you and Worms of the Earth as a musician and a performer?

Barrett: Red Invasion 1919 was a fucking awesome festival. There were tons of highlights! The most important one occurred when George (DJ Purevil) and I stopped to pick up Josh (Scrap.EDX); we wore robot masks into his place and the cops were called because someone thought we were 'doing a home invasion,' so like eight cops showed up fully psyched up to beat our asses. But the whole event was an excellent experience. The best part was simply having the opportunity to hang out with people whom I could understand and truly get along with. There is no rhythmic noise scene where I am from, so I almost never get the chance to hang out with other like-minded producers. Also, it was great to meet guys who I had been talking to on the net for a while but had never met previously. The actual performance was about the same as any other show, except there was a giant screen for visuals (this is one thing that needs to become a staple at clubs in the USA), and of course having the opportunity to perform a track with It-clings, which went over really well. I'm really glad I played before Scrap.EDX, though, because that dude's music was flawless.

Worms of the Earth also played NuclearFest in 2007 alongside several up-and-coming acts, most from the Baltimore/DC area. As in that year, many new bands and artists, and even labels like Tympanik, have started to come up and make their way into the underground music scene, how have your views on the current state of the scene changed, if at all? You'd said then that industrial is not done and hasn't seen its best days yet. Do you still feel this? As an up and coming artist, what do you think can and/or should be done to improve the state of things?

Barrett: Actually, this is a really fucking awesome time to be coming up in the scene. Even though EBM is on the verge of being totally played out and about as mindless and hackneyed as possible, there is an abundance of other great shit being released. To be honest, once I got away from the whole EBM scene and more into the rhythmic noise/ambient/IDM side of things, I became excited about music again. As you mentioned, Tympanik Audio is an absolutely great new label; I think they are great because so little of what they release is actually in the realm of 'industrial.' But even labels like Ant-Zen, Ad Noiseam, Hands, etc. are still putting out great albums. I've gotten a ton of new albums recently – either that I've bought or that have been sent to me for review – and I am very, very surprised at how good some of this stuff is. In the last year, I have found myself being absolutely blown away – like really seriously blown away – by a few albums, which is always a good feeling. One thing I love about this kind of music is that you never know what to expect from a producer's new album. When you get a new EBM album, you know it's going to be 12 linear attempts at a dance floor hit and three remixes that sound exactly like the original tracks, but with noise/ambient/IDM, it could be anything. For example, I got the new Hecq album recently, and one might expect crazy microbeat IDM, but instead, it's cinematic dark ambient! When producers are able to make huge shifts like that, it's just wonderful.

What can be done to improve the state of things? Nothing. I've finally realized that no matter how much I speak out against what I think are the ills of the 'scene,' nothing is going to change. Trends exist for reasons very much beyond me, and I have very little, if any, control over these matters. So the answer is to just accept this and focus on your own work and create that which you want to listen to as best you can, and seek out what you enjoy, cherish it, and promote it if possible. As long as I can find myself thinking 'Oh my god, I can't wait to get this CD,' than all hope is not lost.

Aside from Worms of the Earth, you also have a more dark ambient-centered project, Ghosts in the Clocktower, in which you've released two split EPs, first with Gaels and then with Protoleet. What are the major fundamental differences between Worms of the Earth and Ghosts in the Clocktower, not just musically but also in terms of your approach to the two projects with regards to the mindset and the ideas explored?

Barrett: Actually, if you look at a fairly global description, they are both pretty much the same: dark, electronic, and otherworldly, yet organic. I think that they basically explore the same sorts of ideas, but in different formats. I love so many kinds of music and I would love to have the opportunity to create music in every style. As much as I want Worms of the Earth to be the aural embodiment of my complete self, it is easy to get caught up in a paradigm; in fact, having this paradigm helps me focus my creative output, and so I have found it especially helpful. What I mean is that Worms of the Earth has begun to take on its own identity and style, and I want to keep it that way. The focus of that project has become to make that which could be described as sounding like 'ancient technology' with a focal point of spirituality/occult matters. Being that as it is, I also want to write other kinds of tracks, tracks that don't fit within that select paradigm and simply would sound wrong being released under that moniker, so I created Ghosts in the Clocktower (yeah, I know, Clocktower is supposed to be two words, but now they are combined to be double the evil) to be for 'other stuff.' It so happened that that 'other stuff' at the time was dark, cosmic-tinged ambient. It was a nice change of pace that allowed me to explore different techniques and methods of creating music. I got to dabble with breakbeats, glitches, drones, different plug-ins/effects, different hardware, all of these things that I never used as Worms of the Earth. Of course, once you learn these new techniques, there is always going to be some crossover, because you want that cool-sounding shit to be present in your other projects, as well. But anyway, now Ghosts in the Clocktower is growing and developing its own identity. With the addition of a full-time female vocalist, the project is taking on a completely new direction, which will be something to the effect of trip-hop plus dark ambient plus dark wave.

For me, environment plays an immense role in the inspiration of music. For instance, when I was living in an apartment way out in the suburbs, there was nothing but trees and graveyards and other apartment buildings around me, so I was always influenced by nature and the sky and stars and the absence of humanity. It was so easy to write tracks for Worms of the Earth or the ambient stuff of Ghosts in the Clocktower. Now that I have moved into the city, I am being constantly influenced by its architecture as well as its character, and of course the presence of humans, but it has caused me to be drawn towards this quasi-trip-hop sound. Anyway the full-length Ghosts album is deep in the works, and I would like to have some samples out soon. It's going to be a real deal album, too; no more shitty three-song free downloads.

As you've spent the early part of your career releasing music over the web and have now signed to a label and are releasing a full-length album on CD, what are your thoughts on digital media and how it is affecting and how it will affect the state of music, both in the mainstream and in the underground? Are there plans to release your music digitally again now that you have an improved production sound?

Barrett: Digital media kicks ass, unless you're a total luddite. For musicians, it is so cool to be able to release music to fans without having to jump through all the hoops to print up CDs and dropping a ton of money, which you'd probably lose most of anyway. Of course, releasing full-length albums on physical media is and will continue to be, in my opinion, the coolest of all. But when you are starting a new project, releasing stuff for free is the perfect way to get your name out there without blowing money printing a million demos that you would give away for free anyway; you can use that money for synths! This is especially true if the band is new to music. Because honestly, who the hell wants to blow money on a project that they've never heard of or some new band that probably sucks? It actually pisses me off when bands throw together shoddy, poorly mixed/mastered demos and expect people to pay money for them when there is so much free stuff that is of professional quality.

Jairus from Ad·ver·sary said it best when asked about his motivation for putting his albums up for free download. He said, 'I think the idea that you're not allowed to listen to something or read something unless you get permission first is completely absurd.' He allows people to download his album for free if they choose, complete with artwork and all, but then if they want to buy a copy, there are many places where they can do that. I totally agree with that approach to music. I am going to make music for myself regardless, and I don't feel right about charging people for my personal creative expression. However, when you're on a label releasing a physical CD, many other factors come in to play and it no longer is as simple as my personal creation; when the label and others pay for pieces of the album, it is my duty to work as hard as I can to sell the album to pay those other people back for contributing their time and effort to the release. If I had a lot of money I would have no problem printing a couple thousand CDs and giving them all away for free.

Would I ever release my music again digitally? Yeah, definitely. To me it's more about people having the opportunity to hear my music and hopefully connect with it. Releasing it for free tears down a lot of walls that might prevent people from coming into contact with it. I really admire someone like Photophob who has several releases on Hive Records, but also runs a netlabel and releases lots of stuff on there for free, all with top-notch production and artwork. I think it shows professionalism to be on a label and release comprehensive physical media, but that doesn't take anything away from great albums that are free. In the future, I foresee myself pursing several little projects, which will hopefully translate into something like EPs, and for things like that, I feel it would be wrong to expect people to pay money for it, and I would rather release it for free. The best route seems to be a free release but also allowing people to buy a physical copy if they choose. That way everyone wins.

The Red Invasion 1919 Festival took place in Canada, and earlier, you said that 'having the connection in Canada has been fantastic,' and that 'people up there still like music.' Having performed there and now being on Bugs Crawling Out of People, what would you say are the primary differences between audiences and musicians in the Canadian scene verses here in the United States?

Barrett: Honestly, I'm not qualified to answer that. I've only played one show there in one city, so trying to summarize the entire Canadian scene from that single experience would be rather ludicrous. As far as I could tell, though, they do in fact still like music.

Let's talk about your musical background. What were your primary influences or sources of inspiration for making music when you were starting out, and how would you say you made the transition from what you were once into to what you are now doing with Worms of the Earth and Ghosts in the Clocktower? Because you also said that there is no rhythmic noise scene where you are from, so how did you immerse yourself in this particular style?

Barrett: To save you from my long boring life story, suffice to say that in high school I was listening to stuff like KMFDM, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, FLA, etc., but it was because I was into metal, and that stuff was kind of like metal. I didn't really know what industrial/EBM was until I got to college. I realized there were only so many sounds that could be made with a guitar, bass, and drum kit, so I ventured more into the infinite electronic side of the music spectrum. In college, I was floored when I stumbled upon what seemed to be the greatest music of all time: Aslan Faction, super evil demonic vocals coupled with brutal distorted beats and evil synthetic melodies. That was what really got me into 'industrial' music. Along with that, a friend of mine showed me the wide worlds of IDM and psy-trance/ambient, so those were my musical foundations.

I started making music with a limited knowledge of the scope of what could be made, both in terms of my knowledge of making music and the types of music I knew to exist. So my early stuff was quite boring and followed – badly – in the footsteps of greater artists. Slowly, I learned of different genres within industrial, as well as got more familiar with music theory and synthesis, which basically gave me the reigns to take my sound in whatever direction I wanted it to go. Honestly, I have no idea how I got into rhythmic noise, but it was destiny. I like music as hard, serious, complex, and brutal as possible, and I was not content with the degree of hardness in terror EBM (trance arpeggios are not terrifying, by the way). So when I found out that it was acceptable to further distort drums and use solely rhythmic elements while still being allowed to label it as music, then I was sold.

As you've played live in several venues both locally and in a few festival appearances, what is the next step for Worms of the Earth? What are your plans as far as the live show? How do you plan to expand on it in terms of performance and visual presentation?

Barrett: I would love to be able to design live visuals, except that venues in the USA seem to be lacking in the projector department. Also, I have no experience with video creation/editing, which is probably a fairly necessary skill for making visuals. Something that is slightly less far-fetched is that I would like to add a second member live; however, there are so few people that I could trust enough with that burden, and those people live ridiculously far away, making this dream just that: a dream. Plus, I enjoy – actually perhaps need – the ability to improv a lot of stuff live, and introducing another person into the mix would either complement that greatly, or more likely fail miserably. For a long time, Elijah from Vicious Alliance and I have talked about working together, so perhaps that will happen. I'd love to have that guy on stage with me thrashing around. But more than likely, my live show will not change and audiences will be forced to watch me alone with a laptop and an Akai MPD thrashing around and pressing buttons, probably enjoying it, but then to keep up their visage of elite scene-ness, they will bitch afterwards about how the show was just a guy playing Solitaire on his laptop.

You mentioned the possibility of working with Elijah from Vicious Alliance in a live improv setting, and you have been known to join Vicious Alliance on stage for a performance or two, plus performing as Worms of the Earth with them, and remixing them on their recent debut. How did you first come to associate with Elijah and Vicious Alliance, and how would you say the working dynamic between you is?

Barrett: It's a funny story, actually. A few years back, a couple friends and I went down to DC to see Vicious Alliance perform. Turns out the event was 21 and over (of course, it didn't say this anywhere), but a couple of us weren't 21 yet so they didn't let us in. The stage was surrounded by three giant windows, so they told us we could stand outside and watch if we wanted. Since we had nothing better to do, we stood outside and watched them perform. During their set, they saw us outside and thought we were making fun or them or whatever. Sometime later after we had gotten a famous DC Jumbo Slice pizza, we came back to the club to see them standing outside. I don't remember exactly what transpired, but something happened, and Tim – ironically now the live drummer of Vicious Alliance – who was with me, got in a fight with Natalia, and we were all about to knuckle up for a giant brawl in the middle of the street. Some mysterious force of the cosmos prevented us all from killing each other, and so we fake-reconciled and then parted ways. I don't remember what happened in the interim, but a few months later, Elijah and I were really good friends.

Working with him is excellent, because he actually knows what he is doing. He knows music theory and has been in industrial bands for years now. He actually knows what the knobs on keyboards do; you'd be surprised how many 'musicians' don't. We have somewhat different tastes in music, but we hate enough of the same stuff to counteract that. We haven't had time to collaborate that much, outside of playing keys for the other's band on occasion. For the most part we've just sent tracks back and forth to get the other's opinions, because we have no qualms about being brutally honest when something sucks. We've remixed each other a few times here and there as well, because we can count on the other not to give a half-assed remix.

You also run your own Webzine, Wounds of the Earth, in which you and several other writers unleash a different kind of onslaught by reviewing music in the current scene, sometimes harshly. First of all, how difficult is it for you to balance your time between listening to and reviewing others' music while simultaneously working on and allowing/not allowing yourself to be affected by what you hear?

Barrett: I don't consider writing reviews anything like an 'onslaught.' But yeah, I started Wounds of the Earth for two reasons: because I was bored and wanted an outlet for writing, and because I was so damn tired of seeing every 'zine mindlessly praise every new album that came out. Oh, and because I was tired of seeing all these 'zines give one-paragraph reviews which do not describe the actual music of the album in any way and could in fact be used to describe any album in existence. The point of Wounds is to offer honest and objective reviews that are not swayed due to trying to become buddies with every band out there. I would not call our reviews harsh; I would just call them honest. The point is to justify why the album deserves the rating we give it. Although at the same time a review is just a piece of writing; the point of it, in my opinion, is to be both informative and worthwhile to read, so I try to inject some sense of humanity and humor into my reviews so that it is describing the inner workings of an album, but it is also sort of like reading a piece of prose or whatever. There is more there than just 'album is good' or 'album is bad.' We have a revolving door cast of writers who come and go when they have time or when I tell them their writing sucks too much to publish. To answer your question: it's not that difficult. It does affect me, but not in an 'I want to plagiarize this' way. Instead, writing reviews helps me to understand why albums don't work and thus hopefully avoid those pitfalls in my own writing.

Secondly, you mentioned how speaking out against the 'ills of the scene' won't change anything, so obviously Wounds of the Earth is an outlet for you to express your opinion, but how difficult is it for you to express these opinions, be they incendiary or conciliatory, while still establishing relations and connections within the scene? Or rather, is it ever a concern for you that expressing such opinions in a public setting could have adverse effects on other artists, labels, and promoters' perceptions of you as a musician?

Barrett: Is it oxymoronic for me to say speaking out will change nothing, yet I run a 'zine? Maybe. Originally, I thought I was going to make the scene better or have an impact on something outside of Wounds. I no longer care about that and I continue Wounds simply because I love writing reviews and conducting interviews. If I can promote a good album once in a while, or prevent someone from wasting their 12 dollars, than creating Wounds was worth it.

How difficult is it to express my opinion? Not a fucking bit. I got into this type of music because I have opinions that differ from most people in the world. I thought that by becoming a part of 'industrial,' I would finally have a place where I was free to express myself. How difficult is it to express my opinion while trying to establish relationships within the scene? Again, not a fucking bit. Maybe I'm just stupid, but I believe in integrity. I got into this scene because of the lack of integrity of other scenes of music. Regardless of who sends me something to review, it is going to get judged by the same criteria as everything else. I don't give a fuck if you're on Metropolis or self-releasing from your basement. Just because you're signed doesn't entitle you to anything; in fact, you should be scrutinized more because you now have an obligation to put out good music, to do right by the people who are backing you. Along those same lines, if you're writing all your music on an old PC in your mom's house and giving it all away for free, it doesn't automatically mean you suck. If someone is too much of a fucking pussy to accept a bad review, then they shouldn't be a musician. I mean seriously, we're in a very niche genre that was created because we all hate a lot of music out there. Expecting everyone to love your music is completely absurd. I couldn't give less of a fuck if someone doesn't want to be my friend or work with me because I give their album a bad review. Chances are if I gave the album a bad review, then it sucks and I don't want to be associated with them anyway. If some of these bands spent as much time on their music as they do on bitching about bad reviews, well, I might have a lot more CDs in my collection.